Glenn Beck flips out...

[R13]

I understand what you are saying, but when someone stumps for no tax increases on the middle or lower classes and then turns around and does it a year in, thats either a flat our liar or someone who was not too in tune to the situation going in.

What'd I miss? I haven't heard of that tax hike on the lower and middle class.

[CoeburnCane]

Agreed with all of that except the "tons of revenue" coming in. You know how when you're getting a loan for anything they do a debt to revenue ratio calculation before deciding whether or not to do the loan? Well, if the US economy were looking for a loan today, our debt to revenue ratio would have us effed royally--no way we could get a loan.

We have to increase taxes in order to get the revenue needed to get out of that hole, even if the increase is temporary.

[Counts]

What'd I miss? I haven't heard of that tax hike on the lower and middle class.

Taxing health benifits would be a tax increase........however the the "Aid" for people makeing 4X the poverty level would take care of that assumeing that the 2 would cancel eachother out


That being said there is NOTHING out there spesific enough to really take aim at

[1inStripes]

What'd I miss? I haven't heard of that tax hike on the lower and middle class.

Theres nothing on the books yet, but when you are hearing that kind of talk from Geitner and other people within the adminstration, you basically know its going to happen. To think it will not is not the most logical thinking you have done. As Counts said he is already looking at taxing health benefits something he looked down upon from McCain during the election.

[TheBeast]

What'd I miss? I haven't heard of that tax hike on the lower and middle class.

Ever hear of the cap & trade bill, or any number of taxes on any consumer products such as tobacco, or taxing helath benefits that are paid by your empoyer?

[R13]

QUOTE=TheBeast;1781396]Ever hear of the cap & trade bill[/QUOTE]


You mean the one that hasn't even been passed by the Senate? The one Obama said he would probably try to help push through when he was campaigning?

or any number of taxes on any consumer products such as tobacco

Such as? Or just tobacco? That's not a tax on the lower and middle class, that's for smokers of any class. Doesn't effect me or really my household, made my stepdad cut down on dipping a little bit...I see that as a good thing btw.

or taxing helath benefits that are paid by your empoyer?

Actually I haven't heard him say he was going to do that or say that's part of his reform plan. If he does, should hear about it tonight with the press conference on healthcare.



Where's all the income, payroll, capital gain tax hikes? Haven't seen or heard of any of those being placed on anyone but the upper class.

[TheBeast]

Such as? Or just tobacco? That's not a tax on the lower and middle class, that's for smokers of any class. Doesn't effect me or really my household, made my stepdad cut down on dipping a little bit...I see that as a good thing btw.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeast
or taxing helath benefits that are paid by your empoyer?

Actually I haven't heard him say he was going to do that or say that's part of his reform plan. If he does, should hear about it tonight with the press conference on healthcare.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke or chew than the rich.

Government and private research has found that smoking rates are higher among people of low income.
A Gallup survey of 75,000 people last year fleshed out that conclusion. It found that 34 percent of respondents earning $6,000 to $12,000 were smokers, and the smoking rate consistently declined among people of higher income. Only 13 percent of people earning $90,000 or more were smokers.


President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., raised the issue with Obama during a private meeting with the president and other Democratic senators and later reported the president's position: [BLINK]"It's on the table. It's an option."[/BLINK]




You really don't understand economics at all do you?

[CoeburnCane]

This is one tax that disproportionately affects the poor, who are more likely to smoke or chew than the rich.

Government and private research has found that smoking rates are higher among people of low income.
A Gallup survey of 75,000 people last year fleshed out that conclusion. It found that 34 percent of respondents earning $6,000 to $12,000 were smokers, and the smoking rate consistently declined among people of higher income. Only 13 percent of people earning $90,000 or more were smokers.

Yes...but think about how much health care costs would go down due to lower instances of cardiovascular disease and Mouth/Bronchial/Lung cancer due to declining numbers of smokers/chewers/dippers out there.

Sure, it'd hurt the big money that gets thrown around by the tobacco companies, but in the long run, a stronger/healthier workforce that doesn't smoke OR at least smokes exponentially less would be a huge benefit in so many ways across that I wouldn't mind large taxes on tobacco. You're also going to have the people crying fowl over that who grow tobacco for a living...well, why can't that farm land be used to grow something else of some help?

Stopping/drastically increasing smoking just makes too much sense for the overall health going forward of our entire nation to NOT do this. And people don't have to smoke/chew/dip. It's a choice to buy the stuff--so any tax on tobacco is a voluntary tax--it doesn't get paid at all until the consumer buys it. At that time, the tax is paid. If someone's dumb enough to pay the idiot tax for a lottery ticket, that's their fault. Same for smoking. Not only are you paying a voluntary idiot tax that you don't have to pay, you're sacrificing your health for it as well.

[CoeburnCane]

And as for taxation of health benefits, "It's on the table. It's an option." doesn't mean that it's imminent or a concrete part of any plan. If that becomes the case, I'll be yelling just as loud as you are. But to use that quote to try to imply it's a certainty and it's gonna happen is a major stretch.

[Counts]

And as for taxation of health benefits, "It's on the table. It's an option." doesn't mean that it's imminent or a concrete part of any plan. If that becomes the case, I'll be yelling just as loud as you are. But to use that quote to try to imply it's a certainty and it's gonna happen is a major stretch.

I disagree IMHO if you/me do not voice our displeasure with that option out silence will be taken as concent......There is a reason the "Silent Majorty" NEVER drives any sort of legeslation.


As for the Tobacco Tax bump while I personaly have no problem with it, it is without a doubt a tax increase no matter how you slice it......Is it a good tax (being that it is a tax I do not pay I say sure ) does it affect people below the $250,000 dollar mark more so than those in upper income levels both as a % of the population and % of there net income (Big Time).